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14 December 2006 @ 11:21 am
This dratter new update journal page  
OK, is there anyone else here who is, like me, getting more and more annoyed by LJ's recent trend of imposing changes for the sake of change without either
a) seeing if people want things to change
b) offering an option to remain on the version they like of something

This is not Myspace. This is not Vox. This is LJ, and a lot of us are here because we like LJ, not because we want it to cloan into Vox or Myspace - if we wanted Vox or MySpace then that's where we would be!

Contrary to popular belief, most of the people I bump into on LJ at 30-50 year olds who have minds that they can use. We're not a bunch of mindless teenagers who need things to be constantly changed or to be nannied.

Is there anything we, as permanent members, can do to change the recent prevalent "like it or lump it" attitude that LJ and six-apart seem to be taking to making unasked for changes?
 
 
Current Mood: angryangry
 
 
 
kittygopounce: game onkittygopounce on December 14th, 2006 12:51 pm (UTC)
I just want to remind all commenters that it won't achieve anything for us to get worked up and aggressive about the changes. artela raises a valid question for equally valid debate and comment - what can we do, pro-actively and in a way that will be more productive that deleting our journals for six days starting from the 15th would be, to effect a change in the way that LJ seem to be applying structural and functional changes at large without much notification or warning.




Personally, I don't mind the changes made to the update journal page. I actually used it today without too much trouble, or even realising it was a serious change. I would have liked perhaps a news post on the main LJ page to explain it, or even some sort of blurb to explain new functions or change if I hovered my mouse over something ... to make the transition to the new layout and functions easier - but maybe this is more difficult than I imagine it would be.

artela, you've said changes plural - have I missed other changes that are as significant as the change to the update journal page, or are you including smaller changes as well and perhaps suggesting that making such a big change without warning is an indicator for how future large changes will be implemented without so much as a nod or notification to the end users?
Artelaartela on December 14th, 2006 02:41 pm (UTC)
It seems to be a creeping sickness with LJ since the take over by six apart... the previous changes that have annoyed have not tended to be as major as this one though.
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 09:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 10:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tooner on December 15th, 2006 05:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fub on December 15th, 2006 01:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tooner on December 15th, 2006 03:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kittygopounce on December 15th, 2006 01:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kyrielle on December 14th, 2006 05:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kittygopounce on December 15th, 2006 01:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
Dr. Mama Rockstar: corn.starkyld on December 14th, 2006 01:02 pm (UTC)
I am likewise annoyed.
prince on December 14th, 2006 01:06 pm (UTC)
Contrary to popular belief, most of the people I bump into on LJ at 30-50 year olds who have minds that they can use. We're not a bunch of mindless teenagers who need things to be constantly changed or to be nannied.

http://www.livejournal.com/stats/latest.bml begs to differ.

Also, what changes are you talking about? Has something new happened recently that I missed?
Schneelockeschnee on December 14th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC)
She did say "most of the people I bump into", not "most LJ users", though...
(no subject) - prince on December 14th, 2006 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 02:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 02:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 02:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 7rin on December 14th, 2006 05:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - prince on December 14th, 2006 06:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 7rin on December 16th, 2006 02:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - prince on December 14th, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - prince on December 15th, 2006 06:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - prince on December 15th, 2006 08:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elfy on December 15th, 2006 01:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - prince on December 15th, 2006 01:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
not: ACHTUNG ACHTUNGtgies on December 14th, 2006 01:07 pm (UTC)
As a mindless teenager who also dislikes the look of the new interface, I'm terribly offended by your remarks and will probably go cut myself and then write bad free verse about the whole experience posthaste.

I could probably slap together a Firefox user chrome hack/Greasemonkey script to restore the old look -- here's hoping I can dig up a copy of the old look for reference! It'll probably be in the code repositories, come to think of it, so no worries.

Also, shouldn't the staff be doing less "HAY GUYS WEB 2.0 :D :DDDD :DDDD" and more FIXING THE DATABASE ERRORS AND SUCH PEOPLE ARE GETTING CONSTANTLY? I have a feeling that SixApart are about to learn a sobering lesson about the use of mod_perl (or indeed Perl in general) for such large-scale projects.
Emmaemmavescence on December 14th, 2006 01:25 pm (UTC)
There were a lot of bugfixes just today, including the database errors you refer to.
(no subject) - tgies on December 14th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tgies on December 14th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - emmavescence on December 14th, 2006 01:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tgies on December 14th, 2006 01:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 09:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Casey K: broke internetcasey on December 14th, 2006 01:07 pm (UTC)
I'm just going to say that other than being almost overwhelmingly bright, I like the new update page and have heard positive things from a number of people within my group of friends-- I'm saying this so that there is some awareness that there are people who like it as well.
prince on December 14th, 2006 01:10 pm (UTC)
Ah. I just saw your subject. I don't use the update journal page. I only post via Semagic. I've only ever posted via Semagic. I guess I don't notice that kind of stuff. Anyways, have fun with your deleting and protests ;)
Curly Fry and the Tator Tots: FFXII- City of Hopejaebird on December 14th, 2006 01:40 pm (UTC)
I update via that too. I like it (I used to use an older version)
I haven't updated it in awhile though. It works fine as it is. :D
I had no clue as to what anyone was talking about, I actually had to go take a look. Not that it helped, I don't know what it looked like before.
I wonder if the MYLJ bit changed at all.
(no subject) - prince on December 14th, 2006 05:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nakeisha on December 14th, 2006 02:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 02:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
V: Umi - Trembling In My Heartgalyndean on December 14th, 2006 01:13 pm (UTC)
*goes to look at the new update page*

Hey, that's pretty cool. While it would have been nice for them to have given us a heads up (which they may have, I haven't scrolled down my flist yet), it's not really changing anything. So the layout changed a bit? I can't see anything that was there before that isn't there now.

A little less white would be nice, but eh, that's just asthetics. But being able to choose the journal at the top of the page instead of writing an entry and then forgetting to change it before I post? Priceless.
V: Marcus - Live For The Onegalyndean on December 14th, 2006 01:18 pm (UTC)
Yep, it was posted in lj_releases yesterday.
(no subject) - scarlete on December 14th, 2006 01:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 01:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scarlete on December 14th, 2006 02:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 02:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 10:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jai_dit on December 14th, 2006 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sorakirei on December 14th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 01:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - paivansade on December 14th, 2006 02:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 02:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - crushedglass on December 15th, 2006 11:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 16th, 2006 12:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - galyndean on December 16th, 2006 12:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - steelbrassnwood on December 14th, 2006 04:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 04:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
henninghenningz on December 14th, 2006 01:14 pm (UTC)
Although I'm one of those 30-50 year olds the changes in the update journal page don't bother me at all since I'm using the Deepest Sender add-on for Firefox. But I must admit that fixing all those database errors would be much more productive than design changes...
(Deleted comment)
nottgies on December 14th, 2006 01:30 pm (UTC)
In Firefox 2.0, there was a problem with the page thinking you weren't logged in when you were using the "remember password" feature of that browser. That's fixed.

Weird, how'd that work? Isn't "remember password" supposed to be totally invisible to the remote server? I thought it just filled out forms.

And, um, you know, they could have fixed those things without making the update page look like Web 2.0 threw up.
(no subject) - pne on December 14th, 2006 03:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scarlete on December 14th, 2006 01:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - scarlete on December 14th, 2006 01:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scarlete on December 14th, 2006 01:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 02:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - ankhayra on December 14th, 2006 09:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ZJRwinterknight on December 14th, 2006 01:22 pm (UTC)
I'm just tired of all the fecking errors. I count 8-10 errors a day at minimum, less than when LJ had a staff of 6 and, when some drives went down, the new drives had to be driven to the main 'office' by an LJ user with a motorcycle and time to spare. Srsly. LJ is now my least reliable networking site.
Abe Hassanburr86 on December 14th, 2006 01:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, back when LJ had a staff of six, people couldn't even get the site to load reliably, let alone get error messages. ;P

In all seriousness, though, it's something we're actively working on fixing; it's taking a longer time because things are way more complex now than they were when LJ had a staff of six (due to the need for the site to grow to be able to support the increased volume it's gotten over the past five years), but it's not forgotten and it's not being ignored.
(no subject) - winterknight on December 14th, 2006 01:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nakeisha on December 14th, 2006 02:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - burr86 on December 14th, 2006 02:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - missakins on December 14th, 2006 05:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nakeisha on December 17th, 2006 04:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Z: blackadder | queeniezwaan on December 14th, 2006 01:24 pm (UTC)
I don't think there's much we can do but give them feedback saying what we dislike and what we'd rather have.

They could go about this better, though. One gets the impression that they make these changes based on the preferences of a very small group of people, rather than considering how the userbase will react as a whole. I'd like them to have opt-in pre-release interfaces/features that users can test out and give feedback about before they get shoved as the default option sitewide. I think that would make everything seem much more transparent and we might actually get things that come out being more userfriendly and/or eyefriendly.

As for the update page, I like it better than that horrible navstrip they lumped us with. Things are in weird places, though, and it needs work still, but it has potential.

I am getting a bit sick of all this shiny spangly (pointless) Web 2.0 stuff these days, though.
Schneelockeschnee on December 14th, 2006 01:39 pm (UTC)

One gets the impression that they make these changes based on the preferences of a very small group of people, rather than considering how the userbase will react as a whole.

A classic case of second version syndrome, I'd say - the only people who make their opinion known are those who don't like the first (or, more generally, earlier) version, so the changes made tend to satisfy their wants/needs only without taking into account what the silent majority who - one assumes - likes the first/earlier version wants or needs.

I'd like them to have opt-in pre-release interfaces/features that users can test out and give feedback about before they get shoved as the default option sitewide. I think that would make everything seem much more transparent and we might actually get things that come out being more userfriendly and/or eyefriendly.

Word. The possibility to opt out for those who don't want a new feature after it's made the default would be nice, too - just like the introduction of the XColibur and later Horizon skins didn't mean that people couldn't use Dystopia anymore (I still use that one), the introduction of new features shouldn't mean that people shouldn't be able to disable them, either. :)

prince on December 14th, 2006 01:29 pm (UTC)
wait... i get it now...
i just looked at your icon again.

you're doing an impression of debbie downer, right? what do i win?
Artelaartela on December 14th, 2006 02:39 pm (UTC)
Re: wait... i get it now...
What on earth are you on about?
debbie downer! - prince on December 14th, 2006 03:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: debbie downer! - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: debbie downer! - prince on December 14th, 2006 05:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: debbie downer! - 7rin on December 14th, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
...scarlete on December 14th, 2006 01:37 pm (UTC)
I don't mind the changes, though I would appreciate more fixes and less.. "glitter" for a while.
Z: swan | floatyzwaan on December 14th, 2006 01:39 pm (UTC)
I think that is the best way anyone's put it so far :)
(no subject) - schnee on December 14th, 2006 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Schneelockeschnee on December 14th, 2006 01:46 pm (UTC)
OK, I was actually about to say that the new update page isn't so bad (a little different, maybe, and not an obvious improvement, and thus a bit annoying while you get used to it), but... what POSSESSED the LJ folks to use a PROPORTIONAL font for the main text area‽
King Ratgkr on December 14th, 2006 02:02 pm (UTC)
I worked for a big ecommerce site for over 5 years. One of the nice things we could do was to actually design out pages with usability in mind. That's one of the nice things that LJ has done since they got bought by SixApart; they've been taking usability into account rather than just hacking together crap. ANd of course, every change is accompanied by someone whining about how it's becoming myspace. Have you looked at Myspace? This ain't even close to the annoying that is Myspace.
Artelaartela on December 14th, 2006 02:48 pm (UTC)
I also work in IT - and one of the things I've learned in 20 years of IT is you don't go foisting changes on your customers unless they want them, have asked for them, and have had a chance to try them out to see if they like them!
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 10:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 10:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Charmanderpokecharm on December 14th, 2006 02:07 pm (UTC)
yeah, I agree, it is getting really tiresome...why do they have to keep changing things? it was fine the way it was!
grahamsgrahams on December 14th, 2006 02:13 pm (UTC)
No.
grahamsgrahams on December 14th, 2006 02:15 pm (UTC)
What does "dratter" mean, anyway?
Artelaartela on December 14th, 2006 02:51 pm (UTC)
It's a funky new LJ-style way to spell "dratted" - ie. new, "improved", and not working as intended.
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 02:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 14th, 2006 03:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 03:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 03:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 03:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 10:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 11:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Casey K: just chilling on the internetcasey on December 14th, 2006 03:21 pm (UTC)
I think it makes you less atypical than you suggest (although maybe I did detect a hint of sarcasm). I think it's more an issue of the people who are happy not feeling as much of a need to speak up, since they are happy with the direction things are going. I haven't liked *every* change LJ has made over the past couple years, but I have definitely been okay with most of them.
(no subject) - lnr on December 14th, 2006 03:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 03:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 03:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 04:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 04:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grahams on December 14th, 2006 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 10:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 15th, 2006 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - celtic4 on December 14th, 2006 04:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - galyndean on December 16th, 2006 12:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 06:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zonereyrie on December 14th, 2006 10:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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Marcus L. Rowlandffutures on December 14th, 2006 03:42 pm (UTC)
54 here, and no problems with the new entry page - can't honestly say I'd consciously noticed it. The thing I am finding annoying is the little box that suddenly pops up when you put the mouse over someone's user pic, asking if you want to

Add friend
View: Journal | Profile

There's probably a way to switch it off, but I haven't found it yet.
Marcus L. Rowlandffutures on December 14th, 2006 03:46 pm (UTC)
OK, took a look. Far as I can see the big change is you pick the userpic at the top instead of the bottom. Big fracking deal.
(no subject) - 7rin on December 16th, 2006 02:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lnr on December 14th, 2006 03:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mopalia on December 14th, 2006 05:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ffutures on December 14th, 2006 09:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - valencia112 on December 14th, 2006 10:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - galyndean on December 16th, 2006 12:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - purpletigron on December 17th, 2006 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
qfemale: TV - Wonder Years logoqfemale on December 14th, 2006 03:47 pm (UTC)
VoxSpace, no thank you!

I'd also like to throw in that I have teenagers on my flist and they are just equally annoyed about this right now.

However, if they did it because it helps inproove the system, I am all for it. If it has any lesser reason, I think it shouldn't have been done. (Just reffering to the change of the update site right now)
Cythereanightsinger on December 14th, 2006 05:46 pm (UTC)
There was a long post on lj_releases about the change and a bunch more stuff they worked on. :)
(no subject) - qfemale on December 14th, 2006 05:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Rachelpumpsnail on December 14th, 2006 03:48 pm (UTC)
What don't you like about the new update journal page?

Not flaming, but genuinely curious, because I just checked out the new page and it looks mostly the same as the old one.
Artelaartela on December 14th, 2006 03:50 pm (UTC)
How about things are in an "odd" order on the page and it doesn't resize properly if you don't use full screen mode and they've mucked about with fonts?
(no subject) - pumpsnail on December 14th, 2006 04:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - artela on December 14th, 2006 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 7rin on December 14th, 2006 05:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - glowing_dragon on December 15th, 2006 02:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 7rin on December 16th, 2006 01:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - glowing_dragon on December 16th, 2006 01:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - 7rin on December 16th, 2006 01:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
Brian Enigma: Beerbrianenigma on December 14th, 2006 04:02 pm (UTC)
I'm a 30-something LJ user who, frankly, didn't even notice the changes to the update journal page--even after reading the LJ_Release post about it. I guess I never used the old page, so have nothing to compare the new one with. Xjournal on the Mac has some great in-line spell checking, visual icon selection, and a dynamic UI that is a bit more interactive than a Web 2.0 site. It will also hold on to an incomplete post until I'm ready to post it.

I did hear from a friend who thinks the text on that page is too small now, but because I honestly would have never noticed the change without the LJ_Release post (or this one), I'm not quite ready to rage against the machine just yet.
Cold Spaghetticoldspaghetti on December 14th, 2006 04:04 pm (UTC)
What changes specifically are you referring to?
Maraceltic4 on December 14th, 2006 04:48 pm (UTC)
I'm nearly 30 years old. I like all the changes. LJ is what YOU make of it. If features don't grow on me, I don't use them (like tags and phone posts).

Honestly, LJ is a journal service. If bare-bones is more your thing, buy a domain name and post plain-text entries on it. I enjoy people coming up with new features and things that I would never think of in a million years to use--it makes LJ fun and, like I said before, if I don't like it I don't use it.

To be angry simply because things change is pointless and, I think, rather disingenuous. This is life. Things change. Gotta keep up with the times somehow.
子rin - An faigh: masturbation7rin on December 14th, 2006 06:07 pm (UTC)
Tags and phone posts are a lot easier to ignore and not use than the basic workings of the site (such as the update/edit post page).