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18 March 2008 @ 12:26 pm
This could very well be a stupid question, but I can't find an obvious answer anywhere.

What, exactly did it say when we purchased our perm accounts?

With everything going on, I'm getting nervous, and I'd like to have a copy of what it said that is "contractual"ish when I bought my perm account last June. All the stuff about it being forever, and all that. I know that SUP is supossed to honor previous agreements, but it makes me nervous that they are breaking previously-made promises.

I know that there is a difference between promies and contracts, but it would reassure me greatly to see exactly what it said upon purchase of my perm account. Did anyone happen to save it, or know where I can see it?
lauramcewan on March 18th, 2008 05:42 pm (UTC)
Mine was a gift. All I got was an email that said:

(the following is a gift from LiveJournal user "************")

Your LiveJournal account "lauramcewan" has been upgraded to a permanent

LiveJournal Team
Jessosyntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 05:47 pm (UTC)
Wow! What a gift! That was really nice of someone!
WeHo M.afrocurl on March 18th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC)
The email I had said something about upgrading to a permanent account, and some details about my account at that time (how many icons I had used, what portion of my scrapbook was used and how many voice posts.)
Jesso: Permanent Shield!syntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 05:47 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I got that same email. Looking at it now, it's really not that informative at all :-/
WeHo M.: ET - Doesn't Knowafrocurl on March 18th, 2008 05:49 pm (UTC)
It's really not, but I don't think that it would make good business sense to go back on the deal. Especially since there isn't anything that the site offers that we all can't use.
Jessosyntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 05:51 pm (UTC)
I know. Logic says that. But I'm still nervous. Worrying is what I do :-)
Ayoub™ayoub on March 18th, 2008 05:52 pm (UTC)
SUP aren't breaking previously held arrangements (yet)... The changes are for new accounts only.

That being said, the only contract that means anything is the ToS, which states:

Permanent accounts: These accounts have access to all the paid account features for as long as the Service continues to run, with no recurring fees. These accounts are generally bestowed upon the LiveJournal founders, administrators, or those that have earned a Permanent account by virtue of "Work Excellence" for LiveJournal. LiveJournal administrative communities such as news, development, etc., are also established as Permanent accounts for the benefit of LiveJournal users.

So as long as "Ad free" is a paid option, we will have it.
Jessosyntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 06:00 pm (UTC)
Nice. That instills great confidence.
Ayoub™ayoub on March 18th, 2008 09:18 pm (UTC)
Heh... It's the nature of legal documents, sadly...
TCL MERGE ERROR ( 07/31/2009 22:35:52 ): chessthe_cynic on March 18th, 2008 06:05 pm (UTC)
But the TOS also states:

You agree that LiveJournal, in its sole discretion, may terminate your password, journal, or account, and remove and discard any content within the Service, for any reason, including and without limitation, the lack of use, or if LiveJournal believes that you have violated or acted inconsistently with the letter or spirit of the TOS. Any contracts, verbal or written or assumed, in conjunction with your deleted journal and all its parts, at LiveJournal's discretion, will be terminated as well. LiveJournal may also, in its sole discretion and at any time, discontinue providing the Service, or any part thereof, with or without notice. You agree that any termination of your access to the Service under any provision of this TOS may be effected without prior notice, and acknowledge and agree that LiveJournal may immediately deactivate or delete your LiveJournal journal and all related information and files. LiveJournal reserves the right to bar any further access to such files or the Service. You agree that LiveJournal shall not be liable to you or any third-party for any termination of your access to the Service. Paid accounts that are terminated will not be refunded.

So any account, from Basic to Perm can be deleted at any time.
Daniel the California Highway Guy: fountain-pencahwyguy on March 18th, 2008 06:10 pm (UTC)
However, I would expect that language, or something similar, is probably in the TOS of most service providers. It is important to note that nothing is final until it is tested in court.
surrey_suckssurrey_sucks on March 18th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC)
I thought LJ never deleted accounts for lack of use.
lied_ohne_wortelied_ohne_worte on March 18th, 2008 08:03 pm (UTC)
They don't do it rightt now - I guess they just want to keep their options open, in case they should ever change the policy.
Lackadaisical Sophistpinkfu on March 18th, 2008 08:31 pm (UTC)
Knorg Knorgsson: Candiacrackpig on March 18th, 2008 09:07 pm (UTC)
Meh, there was a lot of "feedback" in the news threads after the last purging and "buy rename tokens" shilling that people would like to get their sticky fingers on good names that haven't been accessed in years.

If the lads running the place as a business thought there was money in it, they'd probably allow renaming of accounts to those held by unused accounts at the least, followed by eventual deletion.

Which doesn't seem unsensible to me.
surrey_suckssurrey_sucks on March 18th, 2008 11:43 pm (UTC)
But I think there is a difference between a journal that was created and never used (no friends, comments, or entries) and a journal that was used and has some entries, particularly a lot of entries, and is no longer actively used. I don't think it would be fair to erase the latter, as perhaps the person who created it still wants to have the ability and read old entries. If one day I stop writing in my journal, or am unable to for a long period of time, I don't want my past erased.

Also, some people use their journal simply to read their friends' journals and leave comments, not to write in. That account, in my opinion, is still being used.
Ayoub™ayoub on March 18th, 2008 09:20 pm (UTC)
That's a necessary caveat in all ToS's... Basically, if they go out of business, they can't then be sued by us users to keep the service running...
just another star in the skylittlestarletta on March 18th, 2008 05:55 pm (UTC)
No you have to post everyday or else you get fined 1 million dollars! bwhahahaha
Jesso: RTS - omgpanicsyntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 05:59 pm (UTC)
Oh shi-
Diacritical Hit: I have 90 minuteswhatifoundthere on March 18th, 2008 07:01 pm (UTC)
(starts typing)
Spring Nights Forevertallblue on March 18th, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
There is no contract except for the TOS. Personally I just hope that my account stays permanent for the time that would at least equal what I paid for back in June.
Schneeschnee on March 18th, 2008 07:41 pm (UTC)
IANAL, but are you really sure about that? Surely there must be some kind of contract; you're not just giving LJ free money, after all. Rather, it is understood that in exchange for this money, you will get a special account, with various benefits you wouldn't otherwise get - so there is a contract.
Angel of Def, with my rhymes against humanity.homunculus on March 18th, 2008 09:06 pm (UTC)
true, but all companies i know of make some kind of safety net that states they can refuse/revoke service at any time so they can avoid legal trouble.
purplejuli: Black rosepurplejuli on March 18th, 2008 10:39 pm (UTC)
When I saw your avatar I felt the need to tell you that I was almost locked in the graveyard where Mr. Poe resides last night.
Angel of Def, with my rhymes against humanity.homunculus on March 19th, 2008 01:40 am (UTC)
haha, creepy yet awesome.
Schneeschnee on March 18th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC)
Hmm. I just checked, and this is the email I got, in its entirety:

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:29:14 UT
From: accounts@livejournal.com (LiveJournal)
To: schnee
Subject: Permanent Account

Your LiveJournal account "schnee" has been upgraded to a permanent account.

LiveJournal Team

Not very confidence-inspiring.
Jon Morsejonfmorse on March 18th, 2008 10:37 pm (UTC)
You guys are looking at the wrong angle.

Those who purchased permanent accounts, and those for whom they were provided in compensation for actual work done, cannot have them taken away via a business decision. A lawsuit in that event would almost certainly be a loss for LJ.

The lack of a "contract" shouldn't mean much; they advertised the sales, and thus the company -- regardless of ownership -- is bound by that. At the very least, they'd be open to fraud and/or false advertising charges. It's indisputable that permanent account sales were performed for the purpose of raising capital; the company traded "cash now" for the prospect of cash in the future. Especially early on when they first had perm account sales, they were asking users to basically bet that LJ would even still be around four years later (since if LJ disappeared entirely, perm account holders would have no claim against them). They can't go back it on regardless of ownership, because the benefit from the sale carries forward. The argument would basically be, "there wouldn't have been a company for you to purchase if not for the non-ownership investment these people made."

Now, people who were given permanent accounts for "contributions" but were not necessarily "performing work" for LJ in the legal sense... they have no guarantee at all. But I don't know whether they could easily distinguish one from the other.
Jessosyntheticjesso on March 18th, 2008 11:22 pm (UTC)
Oooh, I hadn't thought of that.

Cristin Anneladysorka on March 19th, 2008 12:38 am (UTC)
To be quite honest, my $100 back in 2003 has more than paid for itself by this point anyway, and I'm not that concerned.